When it comes to pharma marketing, traditional touchpoints aren’t enough.
In conversation with Chuck Hemann, president of Integrated Activation at Real Chemistry, and Shirley Lin, director of DTC marketing at Dermavant Sciences, Rebecca Willumson, publisher of Fierce Pharma, asked how increased patient engagement has changed how pharma companies market to them.
With millions of messages bombarding consumers, and with more potential touchpoints than ever before, pharma companies and their marketers must be agile and adaptive.
But the current focus on privacy isn’t making that easier. To deliver on this big ask in the current environment, Lin and Hemann have suggestions and potential solutions. Listen below or read the transcript to learn more.
Rebecca Willumson:
Hi there. I'm Rebecca Willumson. I'm the publisher of Fierce Pharma, and I'm here today with Chuck Hemann, president of integrated activation at Real Chemistry, and Shirley Lin, director of DTC marketing at Dermavant Sciences. Thank you both for joining me.
Chuck Hemann:
Great to be here.
Shirley Lin:
Thanks for having us.
Rebecca Willumson:
So before we begin, can you introduce yourselves and tell me a little bit about your role? Chuck?
Chuck Hemann:
Sure. Yeah. I'm president of integrated activation at Real Chemistry. I oversee all of our activation services, which is inclusive of digital media, social media, and influencer activation.
Shirley Lin:
Shirley Lin, director of DTC marketing, so in charge of all patient activation for the launch of VTAMA Cream.
Rebecca Willumson:
Okay, great. All right. Well, glad to have you both here. So to start us off, tell me how have customer and patient expectations evolved in the current healthcare marketplace? Chuck, I can start with you.
Chuck Hemann:
Yeah, so you know what? I think pre-COVID-19 pandemic, we were already seeing what a lot of people call the Amazon-ification of healthcare where expectations for patients and physicians was to have a similar experience with Dermavant that they do with an Amazon or insert name of CPG company here. I think the COVID-19 pandemic did nothing but accelerate that, and I think the expectations are ratcheted high that if I'm interacting with a pharmaceutical company, it's at least somewhat similar of an experience. It's low touch. It's easy. I get the content that I need quickly, or I get the medication that I need quickly, as opposed to perhaps days gone by where it was a little bit more of a clunky experience and it took a little longer.
Shirley Lin:
From a patient information perspective, I would say, adding to what Chuck has said, COVID just accelerated the knowledge seeking that patients are looking for from any type of product, irrespective of pharmaceuticals, to consumer goods, to anything. They're the ones on the internet, especially COVID. We're locked down. We're home. We're on our devices for the majority of the day. Information is at our fingertips. So within pharmaceutical, patients are just looking to be more informed, especially the patients themselves, as well as their care takers. So we need to be present at wherever they're looking for information, and that's my job to get it to them.
Rebecca Willumson:
Very good. So tell me, how are digital experiences and solutions changing how pharma companies can better meet consumer needs?
Chuck Hemann:
So the rapid changing expectations of physicians and patients that we were just talking about, I'm not entirely sure has translated as quickly to actual activations within the pharmaceutical industry. I think we're starting to ask the right questions about do we need broad-based awareness tactics versus more addressable and personal experiences? How quickly do we need to be able to change media plans and change creative based on real, live engagement with those assets? But it's going to take time. I mean, we're talking about a trend that is not just two years plus old, but the acceleration is two plus years old, and we all know that pharma marketing doesn't necessarily move at that same rate of speed. So I think there's an adjustment period. The interesting challenge is I don't think that patients and physicians really care. They're either managing their disease, or the physician is helping their patient manage that disease. And so the expectation is that I think that pharma moves faster than they are, and I think they have to. Otherwise you risk, I think, disappointing really key stakeholders.
Shirley Lin:
I would add, I think pharmaceuticals are trying to catch up to what other industries or categories have done using digital information. For me, it's now really being present irrespective of what my customer base are. I have to go find them at the most perfect time when they're ready to receive that information. Now, that's my job to find out where they are. And for me, that's, irrespective of how big my budget is, knowing where your patient is consuming data, where they're getting their information. We are all on Netflix. We're all on YouTube, on Google for numerous hours of the day. We have to be there when they're ready to receive, and that's the agency and the client's job to make sure we have that information at our fingertips to execute when that time is ready.
Chuck Hemann:
The interesting part of this question is we talk within our agency and with clients about the fact that I don't think it's necessarily a channel question. Do the channels exist for us to reach patients and physicians with personalized experience? A hundred percent. Does the data exist in order to give us those insights in order to deliver those experiences? I think increasingly, yes. Does the technology exist in order to deliver those experiences? I think increasingly, yes. A lot of the challenge has nothing to do with any of those things and everything to do with organization. Oftentimes, consumer and physician marketing are separate. Sales and marketing are sometimes friendly in support of the brand. [inaudible 00:05:29] Right. Yes. So I think if we're going to try to meet these expectations of physicians and patients, we're going to have to be a little bit more partnership oriented. I was looking for something a little bit more nuanced than that, but a little bit more partnership oriented, a little bit more integrated in order to deliver that. Otherwise, it's just not going to happen.
Shirley Lin:
To that point, speaking as a marketer, not even within my current role but in my past lives, we have a certain number of hours in a day to run a business, right? I'm labeled a marketer, but I'm really a business lead. I have my hands into every part of my product, which means I have very little time to absorb new information unless agency partner introduces it to me and, more importantly, educates me on why that's important to the success of my business. So even now in my role I'm still learning what's different within this industry within my category, and the nuances of what's happening within the digital universe that I need to be aware of. So I'm leveraging the right paths, the right connections, the right data to reach my patient, as they're in their 24 hour day being bombarded with millions of messages. We're all used to that as consumers ourselves. And how do we distill that down to they are looking for this, now I'm going to be the one to serve it to them. And that's a challenge ongoing for anyone in this field.
Chuck Hemann:
That's true.
Shirley Lin:
So tell me, how has the data privacy landscape changed? Has it made it harder, easier to deliver on that consumer experience?
Chuck Hemann:
I think about the same, honestly. The prospect of 50 individual pieces of statewide legislation is terrifying. The notion of a national piece of legislation also feels a little terrifying. But we're talking about an industry that's generally comfortable working in a regulatory environment, and so the prospect of having to understand those rules and regulation is just one more piece of rules and reg to actually understand. We'll see how that landscape unfolds. I'm personally a little skeptical of national legislation, but 50 pieces of statewide data privacy legislation also feels horrifying. So I don't think it's going to mean a tremendous amount. I'd also add maybe that we're talking about an industry that does mostly contextual targeting. We're not talking about one to one patient targeting. So we're not marketing an Xbox or a consumer packaged good. So we've always been comfortable with a level above of one to one and truly personalized information.
Shirley Lin:
I don't have much to add to that, beyond that, taking my job, my career out of this, as a consumer, I'm thrilled. Privacy continues to be a conversation. As a marketer, it's going to be a challenge. But to Chuck's point, at my level it's so far removed. I am marketing to my target audience, but not the individual patient. So I'm just about two or three tiers removed from that. So right now, working with what I have, it's the status quo going forward.
Chuck Hemann:
I'm hopeful more people are like Shirley, though, in terms of pressing brands for a more equal value exchange. Patients and docs are giving valuable information to pharmaceutical companies, and content for some people I think will be satisfactory, but I think there needs to be a more proactive dialogue about what does the patient get, what does the physician get? And content is not... That's okay. We talked about this in response to your first question. Content is ever available. It's not like a physician or a patient is going to struggle to find that. So hopefully the data privacy drumbeat forces the dialogue about that value exchange.
Shirley Lin:
And that part may or may not interfere with what we right now are focused on, which is personalization, right? We want to see content as consumers that are relevant to us. Even in my disease states, I may have different trigger points that I want to know more about. So that's a piece where privacy may hinder, to be seen, but that piece as a marketer is critical in how I reach my patients.
Rebecca Willumson:
That feels like a good place to end. Thank you both for joining me today. I really appreciated the conversation.
Shirley Lin:
Thank you.
Chuck Hemann: